Talk:Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Genesis)

Hidden rings

Aquatic Ruins act 2:

Final	Beta 4

Placed over the a pillar rings in Final Version. The two rings were possible to grab the Beta 4 version

Casino Night Zone act 2:

Final	Final
	{{{right}}}

17 rings are lost early in the zone at the top. No platform exists to get there.

Mystic Cave Zone act 2:

Final	Simon Wai Prototype

Using swap B scroll Layer emulator, you can see more missing rings.

Oil Ocean Zone act 2:

Final	Simon Wai Prototype

Metropolis Zone act 2:

Final	Simon Wai Prototype

--Porcino (talk) 12:05, 25 December 2013 (EST)

These can be added to a Bugs page when we get better screenshots. --BMF54123 (talk) 05:22, 26 December 2013 (EST)

If this is to be counted as a Bug, what of other similar instances of unreachable collectables I've seen in the Wiki in the past, such as 'Lost Coins' in Super Mario 64's page? Should that be in a Bug page too? I feel like these Lost Rings can stay if the Lost Coins have already stood, provided we get better screenshots of course. Chicobo329 (talk) 06:31, 26 December 2013 (EST)

Why bugs? The line that splits "code oversight" and "level design oversight" is very blurry, but I never saw anybody that called misplaced items "bugs" before. I thought the bug pages were only to help list bugs that could be used to access hidden content, and not just a general compilation of oversights. Not to mention that the inaccessibility of these rings is not just trivial: Sonic game runners -- The Sonic Center -- sometimes do ring runs on Sonic 2 levels. Knowing about the existence of these rings can help them (or at least the newcomers) understand why they can't get a perfect on some levels despite looking like they got every ring. I'll take some in-game shots now, but I would like more debate over the bug page suggestion. {Espyo^T} 08:06, 26 December 2013 (EST)

I would agree with this sentiment here. An oversight is way different from a bug; these rings being unobtainable, much less being unseen without any sort of tools makes them by definition unused content. Isn't that what this site is about? Chicobo329 (talk) 15:23, 26 December 2013 (EST)

The Bugs: namespace was created so we have a place to put ALL bugs and oversights, not just ones that grant access to unused content. Sorry if this wasn't clear. We have yet to make an official set of rules and guidelines for this.

Also, I don't see why level design oversights can't be classified as "bugs". They're unintentional mistakes that cause unintended/undesirable effects (in this case, you can't get a PERFECT bonus in the affected levels). --BMF54123 (talk) 15:26, 26 December 2013 (EST)

The rings are not bug. They exist this Simon Wai prototype. Because of this error is impossible to get a perfect bonus. I'll put the images side by side. --Porcino (talk) 15:47, 26 December 2013 (EST)

Level design flaws are usually oversights because they rest on the fault of the level designer who may have overlooked something, rather than a computer bug which is an unintended consequence from a faulty code or programming error. These level design flaws (not specifically just this case) may even be the result of a prior level design layout that had been used in past builds that they just forgot to remove later on. There may be instances of level design being affected by bad coding which could be a bug, like say a game with randomly generated layouts which you could count as a bug for your section. But in this case, these rings look like an oversight that Sega forgot to report and remove.Chicobo329 (talk) 15:52, 26 December 2013 (EST)

I don't really care if they're not "bugs" in the strictest Wikipedia sense of the word. Besides, I'd rather not rename the namespace BugsAndOversights. --BMF54123 (talk) 15:56, 26 December 2013 (EST)

But you should care because this would be an important re-classification of many bits of information on the Wiki! If you want oversights that aren't the result of bugs on your Bugs section, then it would be best to rename it Bugs and Oversights or something else to this effect. Otherwise if it's just Bugs, then just bugs would be appropriate for it. Chicobo329 (talk) 16:00, 26 December 2013 (EST)

Scrapped Zone Remains

It seems to me we're making a lot of silly assumptions as to what zones these were supposed to be based on garbled/nonexistent data. Seriously, Dust Hill Zone? Don't we basically have zero evidence that that was ever actually implemented, beyond a well-known mockup screenshot and an entry in a level select screen? Can we maybe tone down the speculation a bit? --BMF54123 (talk) 00:59, 6 May 2014 (EDT)

At least rename Dust Hill to Desert and Genocide City to Cyber City. Those are the actual names. -- ( Cdudeiscool | contribs ) 17:10, 21 January 2015 (EST)

Uh, no? --BMF54123 (talk) 21:45, 21 January 2015 (EST)

Turtle Sprite

The turtle sprite can actually be seen in game without debug mode (albeit rather briefly). I was watching a speed run of Sonic 2 and I noticed that he hit the badniks in Sky Chase and the turtle animal actually bounced around on the top of the Wing Fortress (and showed the sprite in question) as it was passing by.

Link to video at proper time: https://youtu.be/NIpgtzarJHA?t=31m34s

I don't know if this warrants removing the turtle sprite from the main page since technically you can see it in game, but I thought I'd run it by here first. DarkLeach7 (talk) 12:53, 23 September 2016 (PDT)

you're right I'll miss it when it is removed. : ) --Porcino (talk) 21:00, 23 September 2016 (EDT)

Collecting some inaccessible rings

A 'Ring Attack' TAS has been recently published using Knuckles in Sonic 2 which actually collects many (but not all) of these inaccessible rings. You can find the TAS and the author comments here: http://tasvideos.org/5385S.html The author and comments deduce that even with Knuckles' additional mobility options and (humanly possible) zip/speed glitches, some rings are still absolutely unobtainable:

• The rings in the walls in Casino Night Zone Act 2
• A ring inside the pillar in Aquatic Ruin Zone Act 2

I have a couple questions before I actually make the edits on the page though.

• Is it worth noting that Knuckles can collect some of these rings in the vanilla Sonic 2 page?
• If it is worth noting, should these be added as comments on the side to the table, rather than outright removing some of these entries from the table? (for example, Knuckles can glide to reach the cluster of 14 rings in Casino Night Zone Act 2, should I remove the entry outright or just say in the comments that only Knuckles can get these?) Chicobo329 (talk) 14:42, 18 February 2017 (EST)

Knuckles in Sonic 2 Level Select/Debug Mode

Shall I put information regarding the Level Select and Debug Mode for Knuckles in Sonic 2 on this page, or should it have its own page similar to Sonic 3 & Knuckles? --BSonirachi (talk) 10:55, 16 April 2017 (EDT)

Unused "cheat" code?

On the title screen press Up, Down, Down, Down, Up a ring sound will be heard.
In the option screen, listen to the songs 01,01,02,04 It will play the Oil Ocean Zone music permanently.
Do these codes have any use? --Porcino (talk) 06:01, 8 June 2017 (EDT)

I think the second one gives you a bunch of continues, but they used the wrong sound code for the confirmation sound, which causes the sound driver to go unresponsive for some reason. --BMF54123 (talk) 06:22, 8 June 2017 (EDT)

It does give you 14 continues, and you are right about how the infinite music results due to the way it was originally written: the "&$7f" after the "#SndID_ContinueJingle" means that bit $7f was erroneously masked out, causing it to bring up $3f rather than the intended $bf that is the true sound ID for the continue chime. Pressing reset while this happens will temporarily change the BGM to the Emerald Hill Zone theme, until the SEGA screen fades to black. WikiPro1981X (talk) 22:38, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

The first one is the region swap code: it removes the trademark symbols on the SEGA and title screens, and changes every instance of "Tails" to Miles. --Neo (talk) 06:41, 8 June 2017 (EDT)

This is interesting, very much. :O --Porcino (talk) 08:16, 8 June 2017

"Up, Down, Down, Down, Up" at the Title Screen changes every reference in the game of "TAILS" to "MILES" in the World releases and vice versa in the Japanese release. "01, 01, 02, 04" in the Sound Test (but only the Sound Test in the Options Menu; not effective in the one found within the Level Select screen) will start the player with fourteen Continues. The music track from Oil Ocean Zone also continually plays, even silencing all other sound in the game due to a bug.(EDT)

Wing Fortress Zone Laser

In my opinion it is not a laser but the fire of the ship's turbines. This fits perfectly even if it sounds weird.
--Porcino (talk) 21:52, 20 June 2017 (EDT)

That fits perfectly, it makes much more sense than a random laser that comes out from nowhere. --Chainspike (talk) 04:47, 23 June 2017 (EST)

I know there's a "this suggestion was implemented into the article" template that I'm supposed to use in this situation, but I don't know how to find it. In any case, I've added this to the article. --Murnjendoof (talk) 10:26, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Unused object mappings

Mappings are information that arranges art into the pieces and color pallet assignment. Sonic 2 seems to have 9 unused ones. In the current community disassembly there are located under mappings\misc named "Strange unused mappings". Is there any good discussion of these out there, and what's strange about them? ``Heran Bago (talk) 19:29, 3 July 2017 (EDT)

"Unused 2x2 Tiles"

I realize these aren't "official" names, but generally within the Sonic hacking community, we refer to the pieces that make up the level as tiles, blocks, and chunks (in order of increasing size), and with their sizes in pixels, ie 8x8, 16x16, and 128x128 or 256x256. Also, is it really necessary to split the blocks into high and low portions? If so, why not do the same for the chunks as well? Maybe we could include the collision paths while we're at it? MainMemory (talk) 21:22, 23 July 2017 (EDT)

I think 2x2 tiles are easier to understand because the mapping IDs select 4 tiles in VRAM generating a 2x2 tile :-/

I tried to add smaller pieces like 1x1, but the graphics used in level design are mixed with object graphics so it's hard to understand which piece means anything and it's very small. Either way, 2x2 tiles are referenced and are easier to filter them to find out if they are used or not. --Porcino (talk) 22:46, 23 July 2017 (EDT)

Mega Collection Plus Version

There's another revision of this on Mega Collection Plus. I know that it fixes the bug with the 14-continues cheat, and there may be other fixes too (because I don't know exactly what was fixed I didn't edit this in myself). RibShark (talk) 20:40, 26 December 2017 (EST)

At first I had no idea what this was talking about, but it's right: even the original Mega Collection had a bugfixed version of Sonic 2 (REV01) that fixes the continues cheat bug. I've compared the ROMs, and it's the only edit made to the game. There aren't any other fixes in there. Toasty.C (talk) 20:00, 6 May 2018 (EDT)

Regarding the inability to spindash off the Tornado

I'm not sure that's a bug. In fact, I'm pretty sure being able to spindash off the Tornado was the real bug. Although, according to Sonic Retro, the buggality (I know that's not a real word, but how else am I supposed to say it?) is disputed amongst the people who discovered the bug/feature/whatever. Even then, wouldn't the inability to spindash off the Tornado in Rev. 02 be a bug-fix? I don't know, maybe this is me overlooking something. --That person who ALWAYS gets their changes undone (not anymore don't think) (talk) 17:34, 3 April 2018 (EDT)

I'm not sure whether being able to spin dash off the Tornado is intended or not. I haven't made sense of the object's code yet. Still, the "bugfix" is more than likely a bug itself. For one, it was reverted in Knuckles in Sonic 2 and the Sonic Jam port, which were both based on Rev. 02. Considering KiS2 came out before Sonic Classics/Compilation, and Jam came out after, there's even the possibility that the bug (along with the other two Rev. 02 exclusive bugs) was introduced in that version specifically.

Internally, it's not a very good bugfix - in fact, it's caused by the same types of changes to the code that introduced the Grabber/Silver Sonic and WFZ platform bugs, which were all to do with strange bitmasking. In Grabber/Silver Sonic's case, the bitfield containing the object's X/Y-flip bits was masked with a different value in Rev. 02, which stopped the X-flip from being inherited. Likewise, the WFZ platform bug was to do with the bitfield containing Sonic's 'is currently stood on an object' bit being masked with a different value that cleared his Y-flip bit instead, for absolutely no reason. Without that bit cleared, Sonic would just hover in the air. As for the Tornado, the bitfield containing its 'Sonic is currently stood on this' flag was masked with a value that changed the X-flip bit instead.

There was no reason for any of these changes, and the fact that one of them was able to mask a 'bug' seems like a coincidence to me more than anything. If anything, they come off as some kind of bizarre build error. Why on earth would a handful of otherwise-unrelated bitmasks change, with the only thing in common being they're changed to something involving the X and Y flip flags? Between S1's and S2's revisions, this is the only one to have changes this strange. There are plenty of 'proper' ways to stop Sonic from spin dashing off the Tornado, and Rev. 02's is the least proper. Toasty.C (talk) 06:30, 5 April 2018 (EDT)

Knuckles in Sonic 2 Prototypes

There are some prototypes of Knuckles in Sonic 2. Is it okay to put a separate page for these prototypes? --Tresdor34 (talk) 15:25, 17 June 2018 (EDT)

I guess, but where would Knuckles in Sonic 2 go? --From: divingkataetheweirdo (talk) 19:58, 17 June 2018 (EDT)

The prototypes could go to Sonic & Knuckles prototypes page. -Tresdor34 (talk)

On Rev. 02's added bugs and recent research

The current article states that Revision 02 is the version first released in Sonic Classics, and that it has new bugs that were fixed in later versions afterwards. However, relatively recent research by Clownacy on Sonic Retro (from November) highly suggests that those bugs are not inherent to Rev. 02, and that those bugs are specific to Sonic Classics. It might be a good idea to make edits to the page to reflect this, though I'd rather bring it up in here first.

Here's the summary of that:

• Rev. 02 is the version that Sonic Classics, Knuckles in Sonic 2, and Sonic Jam's Sonic 2 are based on.
• Sonic Classic's version was released in 1995 and has the new bugs. This is the best-known version of Rev. 02.
• Sonic & Knuckles (with KiS2) was released in late 1994. This is missing the new bugs, and has a specific fix for the EHZ scrolling bug (only fixed in this version).
• Sonic Jam was released in 1997, and its version of Sonic 2 based on Rev. 02. This version is once again missing the added bugs from Classics.
• However, in that post, the author points out that there's another version based on Rev. 02: the Mega Play version of the game.
• This version is also the only version of Rev. 02 to have the ROM header, and the header proves that it is indeed Rev. 02.
• This version was released in 1993, a year before S&K and two years before Sonic Classics, meaning it's the oldest known version.
• Since only one specific later version of Rev. 02 has the added bugs, it seems very much more likely that it was simply Sonic Classics that added the bugs, rather than the bugs being inherent to Rev. 02 and being fixed in later released.

The actual post goes a lot more in-depth than this, and even has some details on the bugs themselves, but I think this works as a decent summary. Should the page be corrected based on this info? I'm putting this in here in case anyone has any thoughts on the matter. Also, correct me if I'm wrong or misinterpreting the original post, though I think I've got it mostly correct.

--ShiningWing (talk) 17:57, 2 April 2019 (EDT)

While the continue chime bug is fixed here (with the coder actually reassigning the sound IDs to lower bytes to avoid the need for bit 7 to be set), as far as I know REV. 02 was never used in any standalone Sonic 2 cartridge. WikiPro1981X (talk) 08:27, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

An interesting discovery

A man who claims to have worked on the Sega Genesis/MegaDrive has shown some early music for Sonic 2 on their YouTube channel, along with some music made for Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine. Their name is David Javelosa; they're a teacher whose student told them to upload their early music to YouTube.

The following is their release of the song(s?) onto YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJLkkOxRP8Y

He also has a website.

http://javelosa.com/

The question is, where should this be included? Rather, should it be included? The man's on Sonic Retro, too. What do you guys think? --kaidigem (talk) 21:53, 16 May 2019 (EDT)

I don't think that's real. Judging from the name of the "song", it seems like it might be an early version of Casino Night Zone? But when you consider that Casino Night's music was already relatively close to the final game by the time of the Simon Wai prototype, you can pretty much assume that the song you found is fake. It just sounds too different, and the man may not have actually worked on Sonic 2 as he said he did. If you can confirm that the song is real, then maybe it could be added? That's my opinion. What does anyone else think? -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 03:13, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Actually, I think it should be included, as this one is legit. Just because it wasn't in any of the prototypes doesn't mean it does not belong here. Take Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine (as a good example), as that game had Kraftwerk's "Home Computer" music shown in a prototype removed in the final version due to licensing reasons. To prove that this is actually real, the video was posted in 2019, which was a year prior to those "Anti-Piracy" screens, and so much more that would come to be after that meme spread like wild. What I'm ultimately trying to say is; if it was completely fake, then it would never be allowed at all. So to me, I've been willing to add this, but the question I have right now is: Where should it go to? -- TetraFan1000 (talk) 03:51, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Sonic 2 is a super popular game. Pretty much everything that could have been discovered, has already been discovered. This post is from 2019, if there would have been some credence to those claims, it would have been added to the site years ago by more knowledgeable people. ReyVGM (talk) 04:02, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

I think both of you have good points, although I still don't think this should be added to the page, at least until someone gets more information on this. You guys do whatever you think is necessary-I don't know enough about this to give strong evidence. I've also made mistakes in the past with things like this, so I don't really trust myself with this topic too much yet. -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 21:59, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Can anyone get confirmation that this guy DID work on Sonic 2 & Mean Bean Machine? If that part is true, then so is the rest. -- SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 17:41, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Wait, looking his name up seems to confirm this. So that all has to be true. I'll email him and see what he says. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 19:18, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Ok, I emailed him. Now to wait for a response. He worked for Sega, so it SHOULD be real, but I'll wait for him to respond. Let's see if this is real. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 19:26, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

I GOT A RESPONSE! He said, "Seriously, what IS real?! When I have the time, I will dig up the cartridge and a genesis and boot the whole thing up in front of a video camera. If it works, it must be real. And if not, it will be the stuff of legends..." HOLY CRAP! SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 00:27, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

I GOT PIC PROOF!!!! HOLY CRAP!!

There's an interview with some of the Sonic 2 developers that adds some context to the music:

Yamaguchi: That reminds me: The music for Sonic 2 was completely different at first. Someone working in America, an American, came to us and asked us to use this music, but all of the tracks were awful, so together we rejected all of them.

Numata: For Sonic 2?

Yamaguchi: Yes, for Sonic 2. The tracks were just no good, so we called and explained how bad they were, and in the end, we were allowed to use Dreams Come True.

Ndiddy (talk) 13:59, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

American, that sounds like David Javeolsa! All the more proof that this music is 100% real! SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 14:40, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

OH MY GOSH, REAL PROOF!!! :D Wow, amazing. We need to put this in!! But where? I'll hit up ReyVGM and see if they know. -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 02:55, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Wait a minute...the cart says GEMS on it?! Maybe that refers to Sonic Gems Collection...? Hmm, this is so intriguing! Hang on, I'll go and watch the video. -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 03:02, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

THAT'S REAL!!! I'm pretty much in shock right now, how did this all come together?! The interview seems to confirm it! They said the themes were bad, and I can see why they thought that! Especially because it has an shortened early version of the title screen theme, AND of the "SEGA" chant at the title screen too! Oh my gosh, I can't believe it. Wow. -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 03:10, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Read the rest of the threads on the Sonic Retro interview link, there's even MORE proof there!!! -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 03:33, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

No, I was wrong about GEMS. It refers to this! There's even more on David Javelosa's Sega Retro page!!! Hang on while I do some research... -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 03:46, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, this is definitely real. OMG, I really went down the rabbit hole...please put this info somewhere ASAP! PLEASE!! -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 03:53, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

It is real, but not needed anywhere on TCRF. Do not put this info anywhere. -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 00:57, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

If the binary file existed, then we are going to put this in the Development page I think. The music that was named Club Scene was a remix... but it's probably a inspiration of a song... -- Croper-1 — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Croper-1 (talk • contribs)

Random misplaced objects I found

Many years ago I took photos of random misplaced objects I had found scattered across the levels, with debug mode. I only have some contextless crusty photos to go by, so somebody should properly investigate what these are, take photos of them, and add them to the article. I really don't have time to do that, and I figured I'd better dump my findings here than let them be lost forever.

• Mystic Cave Zone 1 or 2. Coordinates: 0F1E00EF. Two rings out of bounds.
• Mystic Cave Zone 1 or 2. Coordinates: 15E30141. Three rings out of bounds.
• Oil Ocean Zone 1 or 2. Coordinates: 11BD0222. Three rings inside of a purple block in a slanted pattern.
• Oil Ocean Zone 1 or 2. Player coordinates are illegible, but camera coordinates are: 186D0190. Three rings inside purple blocks. To the right of it are three more rings inside silos.
• Chemical Plant Zone 1 or 2. Coordinates: 0F0E055E. Some spikes inside of the ceiling.

{Espyo^T} 19:02, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Special Stage Perfect Bonus

https://twitter.com/fr3dbronze/status/1541210656262725637?s=20&t=pmrBTS4mBoROXut3bQrTmQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zpnVFt2bno&t=3s is this worth adding? it's technically not unused but it's near impossible to see. --Ertbert34 (talk) 00:15, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Holy shit, yes. This is one of those cases where I can't even think of how anyone could have gotten this until it was accidentally found 30 years later! See Bomberman for similar cases of bonuses that require Herculean-level gameplay.. YourElbowGreaseSir (talk) 11:13, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

The Perfect Bonus is pretty easy to achieve if you use a second controller to control Tails. I'm guessing most people aren't aware of this or are only using one controller which is why getting a Perfect Bonus seems to be much harder than it really is. Ferrox (talk) 06:29, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Just tested it. It... is not. In fact, it's a extremely herculean feat alone! YourElbowGreaseSir (talk) 03:24, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

In-game codes and Nintendo Switch Online version

I just tried a bit to play with the codes in the Nintendo Switch Online version of the game and I've noticed some things:

- The Continue code does not break the sound driver making Oil Ocean's music to be the only audio played by the game until being reset. Here, no bug tied to the audio seems to occur, and the game will play its audio as expected even after entering it.

- The pause debug features seem to be tied to the level select rather than to the debug mode, since they can be used without having entering said cheat, or by having entering said cheat but not enabled it in game.

- The All 7 Emeralds code is mentioned as requiring to enter first the level select code to make it work, but does not mention that you have to enter it in the level select screen. Is it intended? I can't seem to unlock it from the options menu, at least.

I suspect that the first issue could be tied to an emulation bug/a fix made for said version, but about those two others, are they also present on the cart version and are just not properly documented or is it tied to something else? Carbonara (talk) 15:34, 18 November 2024 (UTC)