Prerelease talk:Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Genesis)/Scrapped Zones
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Wood Zone and Sand Shower/Winter Zone mockups source?
What are the sources of the animated mockups for Wood Zone along with Sand Shower/Winter Zone? | Jammin' (talk) 20:13, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- They're fan-made. Wood Zone and Winter Zone were never revealed to the public until the prototypes were found, and the Sand Shower mockup was a magazine screenshot, so there's no reason for it to be animated. --Murnjendoof (talk) 21:48, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- I found the source. It's not a hoax. The guy actually got in contact with the involved people and will do an interview with one of them in the future. | Jammin' (talk) 21:54, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Wow, that's surprising. Well, you can't blame me for assuming they were fake when they were presented without a source. --Murnjendoof (talk) 00:19, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- I don't blame you. They were found today, so excitement probably made putting in the sources fly by us. | Jammin' (talk) 02:47, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Allow me to loosely add that, despite the fact zero from all Brenda Cook's concepts for Sonic 2 were used in the final product, it's unfathomable yet bizarre the role she involuntarily played (and continues to play) in initiating and inspiring people to get into this big and healthy videogame history venture (even outside of the Sonic 2 scope) for decades, and counting. Of course it is not something that pay her bills or anything, but I say it is something she should always be aware of, because it is a big deal! She touched many lives. The efforts in solving the "Sand Shower/Dust Hill" problem was one of the key foundation as to why most of us are here, in the first place, why we nourish this weird hobby that makes our lives a little happier. Attagirl!
LUCPIX (talk) 19:45, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Allow me to loosely add that, despite the fact zero from all Brenda Cook's concepts for Sonic 2 were used in the final product, it's unfathomable yet bizarre the role she involuntarily played (and continues to play) in initiating and inspiring people to get into this big and healthy videogame history venture (even outside of the Sonic 2 scope) for decades, and counting. Of course it is not something that pay her bills or anything, but I say it is something she should always be aware of, because it is a big deal! She touched many lives. The efforts in solving the "Sand Shower/Dust Hill" problem was one of the key foundation as to why most of us are here, in the first place, why we nourish this weird hobby that makes our lives a little happier. Attagirl!
- I don't blame you. They were found today, so excitement probably made putting in the sources fly by us. | Jammin' (talk) 02:47, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Wow, that's surprising. Well, you can't blame me for assuming they were fake when they were presented without a source. --Murnjendoof (talk) 00:19, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- I found the source. It's not a hoax. The guy actually got in contact with the involved people and will do an interview with one of them in the future. | Jammin' (talk) 21:54, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
This art looks kind of like Wood Zone(?)
I saw this artwork of a jungle level that was apparently used in the Sonic the Hedgehog 2 1993 calendar. It looks a little bit like the Wood Zone concept art; does anyone else think so? This might be irrelevant, but I was just wondering. -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 01:50, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
- It is possible that this art was based on Wood Zone... especially considering there's a precedent for beta elements making it into Sonic calendars (a Sonic 1 calendar featured the cut Sonic Band members). Then again, the only thing you'd really be able to say about it on the page is "an official calendar from 1993 appears to depict Wood Zone". I'll just wait for someone else to give their input, since I'm not sure whether this is notable enough to be added to the page. --Murnjendoof (talk) 08:05, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, sounds good. It's interesting that someone would put artwork that is possibly based off of Wood Zone, considering that Sega might have wanted to keep it under wraps. Oh well, who knows what they were thinking. -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 18:04, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
- There's a lot of vague concepts on that calendar. I remember a LONG time ago that people though that this was "proof" of Genocide City Zone. -- ShaolinTech
- I think that link is broken, but after removing everything after the ".jpg" I was able to view the image. Anyway, it's pretty bizarre that people thought that was Genocide City when it's pretty clearly depicting Oil Ocean.
- There's a lot of vague concepts on that calendar. I remember a LONG time ago that people though that this was "proof" of Genocide City Zone. -- ShaolinTech
- Okay, sounds good. It's interesting that someone would put artwork that is possibly based off of Wood Zone, considering that Sega might have wanted to keep it under wraps. Oh well, who knows what they were thinking. -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 18:04, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
- I must say though, the art in this calendar is really nice stuff. Reminds me of Greg Martin's work on the various western Sonic box arts. --Murnjendoof (talk) 22:21, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
- I actually thought that the broken link artwork was Genocide City/Cyber City for a minute, but then I realized that it was just Oil Ocean. Anyway, should I mention the possible Wood Zone art reference? Even if it's just a little note, it might be worth adding. We could maybe do other calendar references as well, like the one that had the Sonic band members you mentioned. -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 07:34, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- Still a very pretty artwork! I'm going to use it as my new wallpaper right now. --LUCPIX (talk) 16:04, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- There's actually another piece of artwork from the same calendar that might depict Blue Lake/Blue Ocean Zone, although this is a long shot. There's another one (again, from the same calendar) that depicts a city; maybe it's Genocide City/Cyber City? I know this is a little extreme, but I want to make doubly sure that these may be based off Zones. Does anyone else think these artworks are based off prerelease Zones? -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 04:56, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, that's a bit of a reach. That's just a generic city, and we know that Cyber City was going to look, well... cyber-ish. As far as we know, the zone was never intended to be anything more than an indoor, metallic area, which is not the outdoor concrete cityscape that the art here depicts.
- There's actually another piece of artwork from the same calendar that might depict Blue Lake/Blue Ocean Zone, although this is a long shot. There's another one (again, from the same calendar) that depicts a city; maybe it's Genocide City/Cyber City? I know this is a little extreme, but I want to make doubly sure that these may be based off Zones. Does anyone else think these artworks are based off prerelease Zones? -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 04:56, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
- Still a very pretty artwork! I'm going to use it as my new wallpaper right now. --
- I actually thought that the broken link artwork was Genocide City/Cyber City for a minute, but then I realized that it was just Oil Ocean. Anyway, should I mention the possible Wood Zone art reference? Even if it's just a little note, it might be worth adding. We could maybe do other calendar references as well, like the one that had the Sonic band members you mentioned. -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 07:34, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- I must say though, the art in this calendar is really nice stuff. Reminds me of Greg Martin's work on the various western Sonic box arts. --Murnjendoof (talk) 22:21, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
- If you ask me, the artist probably just saw that one of the levels was named "Metropolis" and decided a city setting would look cool on the calendar. As for the Blue Lake thing, that also seems unlikely because all available sources seem to indicate that no actual level art was completed for the Zone (just the concept art piece, before the zone was scrapped), and it seems more likely to me that a calendar artist would receive beta art assets (which may have been the case with the "Wood Zone" art) than actual concept art. --Murnjendoof (talk) 08:17, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, that's what I thought. Thank you for the clarification. And since this hasn't been answered as of yet, should we add a note about the Wood Zone calendar art? -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 04:25, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
- If you ask me, the artist probably just saw that one of the levels was named "Metropolis" and decided a city setting would look cool on the calendar. As for the Blue Lake thing, that also seems unlikely because all available sources seem to indicate that no actual level art was completed for the Zone (just the concept art piece, before the zone was scrapped), and it seems more likely to me that a calendar artist would receive beta art assets (which may have been the case with the "Wood Zone" art) than actual concept art. --Murnjendoof (talk) 08:17, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
About the unreadable characters in the 2nd document
The unreadable text in 2nd Document (2nd part) probably spells out "火の山ZONE（Mountain of Fire Zone）." Intuitively this seems to be the idea that later became Lava Reef Zone, but it could also refer to Hill Top Zone. Especially assuming that "Highland" in this document refers to Hill Top.
Also, below that is written "宇宙DEATH EGG (む". The "（む" at the end is probably a half-written part of "むじゅう力（zero gravity）." Same characters as "14" in this image (https://tcrf.net/File:Sonic2prerelease-timetravel-labeled.png) Additionally, the crossed out text above ヒドゥン(Hidden) on "16" is ハイランド(Highland).
Off topic, but is there any basis for the list of zone names in the second document? In the actual image, there are no zone names written other than ブルー(Blue), ハイランド(Highland), むじゅう力ぞーん(Zero gravity zone) and HIDDEN PALACE. Of course, it is possible to infer the correspondence with the first document, but I think a note about this is necessary. Also, in Japanese, when writing vertically, lines are broken from right to left, so "Neo Death Egg" should be correct instead of "Death Egg Neo." -- Akkadian5 (talk) 14:06, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
- ブルー(Blue) and ハイランド(Highland) appear to be descriptions for Blue Ocean and Hill Top respectively. Besides these two having their duplicates removed and the addition of Hidden Palace, everything else still lines up with the 1st Document's level order. --RankoChan (talk) 03:29, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
Re: Brenda Ross' Winter Zone inspiring Sonic 3's Ice Cap Zone
- So hey, putting this here are the comment in that reverted edit only links the two because they're both winter-themed levels. Normally that would be a tenuous link at best, so I thought it best to add the rest of the data backing this up based on my time on the Sonic community.
- Sonic 3 started as a 3D game, but this work wasn't going well and they had to scrap it. Sonic Team rushed to make a new game using the Sonic 1/Sonic 2 engine instead, and they re-used concept art from Sonic 2 when designing the levels. There are multiple examples on the Sonic 3 page here, but the most obvious one is the Metropolis Zone art with the zone name label hastily replaced with "Inside a Blimp" or something similar. It is not only likely but indeed almost certain that Sonic 3 re-used ideas from Sonic 2, and thus it is not a big stretch to assume that Brenda Ross' Winter Zone inspired Ice Cap. - s_SoNick (talk) (contribs) 2024-02-10T21:12:50+00:00 21:12, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
- I believe I'm the one who did the reverted edit you're talking about. Thank you for the clarification, I've cleared it up. -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 21:22, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
It'd probably be good to move the time travel stuff.
This page is called "Scrapped Zones" for a reason. I feel like it'd make more sense to move all of the map-related stuff to its own page.
While, yeah, all of the map stuff mentions some of the scrapped zones, it's not anything about said scrapped zones directly. < Jammin' (talk) 16:42, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- I agree. We could easily move the time travel/map stuff to its own subpage of Prerelease:Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Genesis). -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 00:37, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
Speculation?
I think that saying a track "was originally composed for x Zone" because it happens to share a slot with a level in the final game is overreaching a bit. Shouldn't we wait for further info before deciding on that? I'd consider it speculation at this point. Wood Zone is a possible exception because it bears similarities to Metropolis Zone (with the conveyor belts and all). I think all the others, though, are too different to assume that the music was made for those Zones. I think we should remove that stuff, at least for now; however, what does everyone else think? -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 19:44, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
- Genocide/Cyber City Zone is also a possible exception because it shares even more things with Metropolis Zone. However, I believe we should re-think the rest of them. -- FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) 20:09, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
