Proto talk:Pokémon Gold and Silver/Spaceworld 1997 Demo

Water Sport

I want to note that I have yet to play the Demo, but I believe that Water Sport should be looked at again. This page claims that it does damage, something that does not happen in the Gen III games. I believe that this is another example of a move altered between the Demo and the official debut of a move. --Sgv Sth (talk) 18:55, 31 May 2018 (EDT)

Prelim table for moveset differences

Blue: Moves swapped between versions.

Bulbasaur		Ivysaur		Venusaur
Proto	Final	Proto	Final	Proto	Final
Tackle	Tackle	Tackle	Tackle	Tackle	Tackle
Growl	Growl	Growl	Growl	Growl	Growl
Stun Spore		Stun Spore		Stun Spore
Leech Seed	Leech Seed	Leech Seed	Leech Seed	Leech Seed	Leech Seed
Vine Whip	Vine Whip	Vine Whip	Vine Whip	Vine Whip	Vine Whip
PoisonPowder	PoisonPowder	PoisonPowder
Growth	Sleep Powder	Growth	Sleep Powder	Growth	Sleep Powder
Razor Leaf	Razor Leaf	Razor Leaf	Razor Leaf	Razor Leaf	Razor Leaf
	Sweet Scent		Sweet Scent		Sweet Scent
Sleep Powder	Growth	Sleep Powder	Growth	Sleep Powder	Growth
Synthesis	Synthesis	Synthesis	Synthesis	Synthesis	Synthesis
Solar Beam	Solar Beam	Solar Beam	Solar Beam	Solar Beam	Solar Beam

--GoldS (talk) 09:52, 1 June 2018 (EDT)

My observations

• There's unused overworld sprites that appear corrupted. The sprites start at 0xC0000. The first corrupted sprite is at 0xC3E40. The rest are located at 0xC6640, they are from Gen I and have the Elite Four and the original RED sprite fishing and on the bike.
• There appears to be presumably unused menu options for the overworld. All the menu options start at 0x11E44, with the two unused ones last.
• The trainer sprite is slightly different from the final.
• The POKEMON and PACK option are switched in this demo during battle.Cheddarandchocolate (talk) 13:44, 1 June 2018 (EDT)

Also the title screen has an easter egg. When you exit out of debug mode, the flames are replaced with music notes:

Cheddarandchocolate (talk) 14:25, 1 June 2018 (EDT)

The title screen looks to swap between flames and music notes each time you wait long enough for it go back to the copyright screen. This also works on ROMs without debug enabled. --Kimimaru (talk) 05:50, 2 June 2018 (EDT)

Link Cable Club Analysis

I ran some tests regarding using the Link Cable Club in the Pokemon Gold Spaceworld 1997 demo with various games. I used TGB Dual for testing, both standalone and the Retroarch core. You NEED to change the rom extension to .gb for Link Cable Club to work. I have multiple screenshots included in this zip file. https://mega.nz/#!6S4GEKRI!g6u4KTWxqgdCku80Y567nqI6aok5GnLZbsTzvsjm6gM I'm wondering where this information could be added to this wiki page? I'll list my findings here.

Linking with Pokemon Gold and Silver Spaceworld 1997 demos:

• I used the debug menu with both instances of the game to warp to the second town, as it has a Pokemon Center with a trading facility, and caught a Gen1 Pokemon in one instance

• Trading works fine; its interface is the same as in Gen1

• Trading video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28DJOzAmvws

• Both trainers had different trainer IDs

• Battling works fine and is playable, but the Trainer text is garbled; freeze upon re-battling

• Battle video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbW8iqQs4EM

• Held items used in Linked VS are gone forever after use

• Bonus Gold and Silver Cable Club showcase video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-zfouWN9is

Linking with Pokemon Aka (Red) Rev 1:

• Gold still checks whether or not your party is Gen1 compatible

• Gold is transported to a Gen1 Pokemon center after using the time capsule

• Gold can only select to trade from a blank menu; battling does not work

• Trading works fine; no problems as Gold's trading is Gen1 trading

• With trading, you can send a Gold 97 monster all the way to Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon

Linking with Pokemon Yellow Rev 0A:

• Trading functions the same way as Red

• You can trade Pikachu, but Pikachu is not special in any way and will not be holding its light ball in Gold

• Pikachu is still shiny in Gold

Linking with Pokemon Ao (Blue) Glitchmon:

• I caught three missingno using the Mew Glitch, trainer locations are marked in the zip screenshots

• All three missingno crash Blue when viewing their stats in Blue

• Trading interface works and Gold is able to view the three missingno as Gen2 Pokemon (Elebaby, Skiploom, and Jumpluff)

• Blue Trading video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmmZ14Tl-30

• Gold cannot obtain any Missingno from Blue as it checks the Pokemon before finalizing the trade

Linking with Pokemon Gin (Silver) and Pokemon Crystal:

• Attempted to have Gold trade and battle with Silver's Totodile and Kakuna, then just Kakuna, but nothing was successful

• Gold is able to access the trade room, but Gold crashes when waiting for Silver. Silver behaves normally and states the connection has failed

• Time capsule does not function at all

• Crystal has the same behavior as Silver

~ONLYUSEmeFEET (talk)

Different palettes and formats for graphics on this page.

I see that some people are uploading GIFs of their rips while others are not. Additionally, I see people using different palettes for their rips. Should we agree on a certain palette and format?Cheddarandchocolate (talk) 20:59, 1 June 2018 (EDT)

I personally was just about to comment on this myself before I saw your post lol. Personally I think we should use a specific pallete. The night palletes aren't that great tbh for the NPC's. I think we should use grayscale for sprites that would otherwise change color (NPC and overworld sprites namely) and use the SGB colors for whatever has a specific color. As for file formats, unless the gifs are animated, I see no point in breaking the PNG only rule that's been agreed upon for years. Glisp (talk) 09:53, 2 June 2018 (EDT)

Chansey game corner animation.

Pretty sure that's in the final game, I've had it show up several times on the Goldenrod slot machine in Crystal. IIRC it forced your result to be 777 Snugglefox (talk) 01:44, 2 June 2018 (EDT)

I can confirm. It's there in the final. Chansey throws eggs at the slot machine. It's one of the rarer anti-777 events that happens. Though I'm not sure Chansey uses those sprites. I think it got brand new ones. I'd have to look again to be sure though. Glisp (talk) 09:54, 2 June 2018 (EDT)

Translation

In the future, it would be nice to make a separate article for dialogue translation rather than pasting an inaccurate translation in between download links and info about said download links. --TeganGibby (talk) 02:39, 4 June 2018 (EDT)

Found out how to change the tile set and unused debug functions.

So, like Japanese Crystal, there are several unused debug entries. One of them is labeled cell. I would recommend replacing the close and next page options with the unused entries. With cell, you can change the tileset between 3 entries, labeled cell 1, cell 2, and cell 3. With this, you can restore the collision detection of grass in certain routes, among possibly other oddities. The only other unused entry that’s worth noting is items, but unfortunately, that crashes the game. -Hexatendo (talk) 18:40, 22 December 2018 (EST)

Found some errors, and also have some suggestions

Hello. I'm just a passerby, because I left the rom hacking community years ago for personal reasons. This is the same reason why I have waited so long to check up on the information about the Pokémon Gold & Silver prototype (I won't download and emulate the rom myself, you see).

Nevertheless, I was big into Generation I and Generation II when I was younger and still play the series today, so I was curious about what had been discovered after the prototype had surfaced. And since I used to read TCRF quite a bit when I was into rom hacking, and since every place out there was basically redirecting people to TCRF for the Gold & Silver prototype stuff, I came here to look too.

I noticed some errors on the Items subpage, and I also have some suggestions.

Let me start with the errors:

 

Item #84's description for what the page says is in that slot in the final game (the Basement Key) is incorrect. The Star Piece has the description that the page lists for that item, not the Basement Key, and it appears to me (considering what Item #85 is in the final game [per the page] is also given on that page as the Basement Key, except this time with the correct description) that "Basement Key" was probably listed as Item #84 on the page by accident, and that "Star Piece" was intended to be listed there instead. I could be wrong on that, but that's what it looks like.

Item #97's (Dragon Scale's) descriptions seem to be in the wrong order. 「ドラゴンタイプの ポケモンが たまに もっている ふしぎな ウロコ」 is the item's description in the final, not 「そうびすると　ドラゴンタイプのわざのいりょくを　よわめられる」. Thus I would assume that 「そうびすると　ドラゴンタイプのわざのいりょくを　よわめられる」 was intended to be given here as the prototype's description for the item rather than as the final's. As a side note, in the final version of the Generation II games, Dragon Scale was accidentally given Item #90's (Dragon Fang's) function of powering up Dragon-type moves in addition to its natural function of evolving Seadra, and thus the item "Dragon Fang" has no function or effect in Generation II. I don't know if that's worth mentioning or not.

Item 9E's description for the final game's Flower Mail, and Item 9F's description for the final game's Level Ball are in the wrong spots. The description given here for the final game's Flower Mail ought to be the one given for Level Ball, and the final game's Level Ball description ought to be the one given for Flower Mail.

 

...And then these are just some thoughts to perhaps consider (feel free to ignore them if you'd rather do that):

 

It has been stated before by the developers that they initially couldn't fit all of the Kanto region into the game cartridge, and that it was only after they asked Satoru Iwata for assistance that Iwata found a method for fitting all of Kanto into the game in a way that would allow it to be put on a Game Boy Color cartridge back then. This could potentially be part of the reason why Kanto is so compressed in the '97 prototype.

Regarding Item #43 & Item #63: I doubt that the Sharp Stone was renamed the Hard Stone in the final game, because an item called the Hard Stone already exists in the prototype, and its description says that it weakens Rock-type moves (presumably, of course, of enemy Pokémon), rather than strengthening the Rock-type moves of a Pokémon of one's own that is holding the item. Considering the interplay between many other type-strengthening items in the prototype that don't exist in the final (e.g. Wet Horn) and their type-weakening counterparts in the prototype that have (what could be called) the polar opposite function in the final (e.g. Mystic Water), is it not more likely that over the course of the development of Pokémon Gold & Silver, the way certain classes of new items were going to work changed? I mean, look for instance at all the type-strengthening "fang" items in the prototype, and how they have all been renamed or gotten rid of except for Dragon Claw.

The Gym Leader that is called "Blue" in the prototype may not have been Red (since Green, as your text subpage indicates, was not labeled when he spoke in the prototype, and [similarly] when he referred to Red in his dialogue in the prototype, he didn't refer to him by name, unlike Green's spiel in the final game, where he did refer to him by name), but rather someone else. I put forward the possibility that it could have potentially been this guy (original tweet here), who apparently was intended to be the Viridian City Gym Leader in Generation I. Someone very faithfully turned that sketch by Ken Sugimori that was obviously intended for sprite creation in the first place into a sprite: https://i.imgur.com/0fSeNFV.png . To me, this character very vaguely gives off a vibe almost like that of Sophocles, the Trial Captain from Generation VII. Considering the design of Green's gym in the final versions of Pokémon Gold & Silver looks like this (with Lego-like blocks), perhaps Game Freak had intended to reuse this prototype Generation I character at first when they were making Generation II, and this character was intended to be called "Blue". Much more speculatively, perhaps he was a loner type, and he looks a bit Youngsterish, so perhaps that's the reason for the Lego-like blocks. Actually, Bulbapedia suggests those blocks may potentially be based on Nintendo's discontinued "N&B Block" toys (Nintendo's answer to Lego blocks back in 1968) that were also featured in Super Mario Land 2. The great Gunpei Yokoi (Shigeru Miyamoto's mentor, the inventor of the Game Boy, and the producer of the Super Mario Land series) died in the fall of 1997, so this potentially could have been a tiny tribute to him as well (it seems that he may have invented the N&B Blocks). ...Anyway, again, compare Green's dialogue in the prototype to his in the final (I'm using the English translation for the final's dialogue, and your translation for the prototype's dialogue)-

 

Prototype:

 

I used to want to be the world's best POKéMON trainer. When I got too arrogant, there was one who showed me humility. Somehow… you remind me of him.

Thanks to him, I was able to mend my ways. Since, I've started helping my grandpa with his research.

… …

Right! This here's the POKéDEX!

 

Final English version:

 

BLUE: Who are you? Well, it's plain to see that you're a trainer… My name's BLUE. I was once the CHAMPION, although it was only for a short time… That meddling RED did me in…

Anyway, what do you want?

 

...The reason for why he isn't labeled in the prototype, probably, if I had to guess, has something to do with with how the names "Red" and "Green" ("Blue" in the English versions, of course) weren't decided upon at first as the definitive, canonical names of the Generation I protagonist and his rival. Satoshi Tajiri even referred to Red as "Satoshi" in interviews about Generation II back when it was in production, perhaps because today's distinction between the video game character "Red" and the anime character "Ash" (Satoshi in Japanese) didn't exist then, and (and this next statement is pure speculation) Satoshi Tajiri back then may simply have used "Satoshi" as a placeholder name for himself or something of that kind.

Lastly, in Generation I, the following was claimed by a Trainer Tips signpost in Celadon City about Guard Spec.: "GUARD SPEC. protects Pokémon against SPECIAL attacks such as fire and water! Get your items at CELADON DEPT. STORE!". Now what that was supposed to mean exactly (due to the "fire and water" bit) is vague. It could be intended to mean that it aids Pokémon who are weak to fire attacks or Pokémon who are weak to water attacks (by way of raising the Special stat) to be stronger against moves of that type. And although the item, even in Generation I, did not actually have that effect when it was used, considering that (and this is probably going to sound a bit crackpottish) Nob Ogasawara--the former translator for the Pokémon games from the very beginning up to Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky--said on the Something Awful forums years ago that, until Generation III, he didn't have control over how the words in all-caps were translated when he would translate the games, and also considering the year that Pokémon Red & Blue were released in English (1998, if I remember right), perhaps--and this bit is entirely speculation--Nintendo of America was told to call the item "Guard Special" in English, because there was intent to change the function of the item in Generation II. Also (pure speculation) it may possibly not have been made to function in the way that it was claimed by that signpost in Generation I because of a programming difficulty, and that they were hoping to surmount that programming difficulty when developing Generation II but either couldn't, or chose in the end to just keep the item's function consistent with Generation I. Just a guess.

Some things that someone might want to consider.

Overall, a well put together page I must say. Passerby (talk) 22:13, 31 May 2019 (EDT)

"Gen 1 (JP)" shouldn't be unified

one section details how "The Poké Balls on the borders got removed", but I'm pretty sure gold/silver are based on red/green which, didn't have the pokeballs on the borders in the first place (they were added in jp blue). Lunathedog (talk) 14:46, 20 January 2024 (UTC)